Welcome to the new AusCraft website!
IP Copied!
Click to Copy IP
play.auscraft.net

Removing MCMMO tokens from store / Balancing buying tokens

I have recently noticed that farms shown in videos like this (without the pistons pushing you) are unable to be used anymore. This seems to a change in mcmmo (not sure if it can be turned of could be under ExploitFix -> acrbobatics) And also killing spawned mobs from natural spanners doesn't grant xp gain for skills such as Axes, Unarmed and Swords.

I feel like this is giving players who buy tokens on the shop an major unfair advantage to players who don't and reaching the levels of players who have invested IRL money into MCMMO is a massive task. I see 2 solutions to this.

  1. Still allow people to buy tokens and support the server (this is a great thing!) but allow xp to be earned in a more farm able fashion for players
  2. Remove the selling of tokens on the shop and keep the same mechanics that are in place now


Some examples of the main skills that are affected and the hardest to farm currently (these players could of grinded for this for all I know but seems unrealistic)


Now this could all me just complaining but I don't see how I am meant to be competitive against players who have more disposable income then others
 

Qty

Server Moderator
You also mentioned to me in Discord that farming of Unarmed cannot be done with spawners (either natural or placed). A natural mob spawner (i.e. dark rooms) are still a viable way to grind Combat skills (Swords, Archery, Unarmed etc.).

I think this is a valid concern, and I'd personally lean towards nerfing of purchased tokens, if anything, if it was my choice.

However, note that this is only more obvious because of a combination of LARGE donations and store donations. A lot of people spent a lot of money on store perks just after the map reset to give them a head start in setting back up.

Over time, things will level out.

I definitely do not think MCMMO grinding will be changed. The way Acro and Unarmed are is good right now, as it prevents people from aimlessly grinding these skills. I remember being able to get to 1,000 acro super easily, with a tower that drops 10 blocks at a time. Way too easy to grind & grindy.

Now you actually have to run around and occasionally jump off a high ledge to level up, it's more incorporated into "normal" gameplay.


And to your other point:
"I don't see how I am meant to be competitive against players who have more disposable income then others "

This is a Survival server, so there isn't inherently any competition unless you create it. Why do you need to be able to compete against other players? This is PvE, not PvP.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
All valid points. One concern I have is that if spawn rates are never changed again (I am hoping they will but just in case they don't) then getting to the higher level unarmed will take a long time. Since sitting in a dark room currently yields very little.

I also don't see why its only this subset of skills that have changed to more natural ways. When you can still just as easily make an alchemy and herbalism farm. As well as a repair farm

I would like to see if say in the next 2-3 months if the Acrobatics scoreboard has changed much currently getting to 404 will require you to always be jumping of a high ledge

If there is no competion why is there a /baltop and /mctop ? I might just play alot differently to other players. But I like to reach high stats on the scoreboards that's just how I like to play. But players with more money then me coming out on top kinda makes it unfun. Sure there still is the Lucky perk pack, but that just makes the leveling easier. Not instantly given to you.
 

Qty

Server Moderator
RE: Alchemy / Herbalism / Repair farms, not sure what specifically you're referring to. Can you tell me what you mean? I grind herbalism by using large sugar cane farms. I grind alchemy by putting down a few stands and making a bunch of potions I never intend on using. They're not "Alchemy farms" / "Herbalism farms" in the sense of a farm created specifically to grind an MCMMO level, like Acro farming (towers specifically created to level Acro).

/baltop and /mctop are commands added by the plugins that were added not directly for those reasons. i.e. /mctop is a part of MCMMO, which is a plugin used on PVP and PVE servers a like. There's possibly not even a way to opt out of these commands, and not really any point. (Actually, possibly negating the permission node, if there's a separate permission node for these specific commands).

I'm a competitive player, and you are too. I love to try and get to the top, so just because the server isn't inherently competitive, doesn't mean we should intentionally restrict commands that allows players to garner some competition.

I agree that there are perks and donations that can be an advantage to players who purchase them, it's hard to completely remove all pay to win components without completely hindering the servers ability to garner donations to keep it running, pay for the hosting and plugins. For donations to completely remove the pay to win components, they'd all need to be purely cosmetic, and I can imagine there'd be a whole lot less people donating if there were only purely cosmetic perks.

Thus, it's a balance, of which I think the store is doing a really good job. A balance which is less important as it's not an inherently competitive server.
 
For alchemy, the specific farm to grind alchemy is very different compared to one for brewing potions so I would called it a MCMMO Alchemy farm.
Herbalism. Players in other maps have built massive sugar cane farms for the specific use of grinding MCMMO herbalism I don't see how its not specifically for grinding MCMMO unless they need worldly amounts of paper.
Repair is just standing on magma or a cactus to damage your armor then repair and get XP.

I don't see the removal of MCMMO tokens dropping the income of the server at all. Since I guess they are only brought at the start of the map and contribute very little in overall income, I could be wrong.

I see MCMMO tokens as pay TO win. Not a convenience feature which I would put Lucky perk packs in.

A whole argument can be made about being competitive also. Why even have MCMMO in the first place? Getting the higher levels of acrobatics is a great thing to have for players who don't buy ranks. But with Acrobatics now not easily farm able and Auscraft having a assumed lower xp rate then default or higher level unlocks for skills as seen in the fishing skill. I see almost no players getting the full use out of Acrobatics or any of the combat skills which can help players greatly. Since you need at least 400-500+ levels in each skills for them to be somewhat effective. And 1000+ for the skill to be maxed I imagine the grind to Acrobatics 1000 now would be a task completed by the next map reset

I just feel that players who have money to spend are given a much better run at some MCMMO skills then those who don't spend any. I feel like this is calling for a rebalancing of mcmmo where high leves are achievable by easier methods in skills such as Acrobatics and Axes/Unarmed/Swords. Which I would say are very helpful skills for PVE.

This has kinda gotten of topic from the original title but I feel it still weighs in on the topic
 

Qty

Server Moderator
To respond to your point about MCMMO tokens being pay to win AND competitive aspects at the same time:
- Levelling up certain skills to certain levels grants certain perks (active and passive abilities). i.e. 50 mining gives Super Breaker. 250 Alchemy allows Haste II potions. Many of these type of perks exist beyond certain levels. Thus, it is definitely feasible that someone would buy tokens to get to a certain level JUST for the convenience of the perks it provides.

Thus, MCMMO tokens are not 100% pay to win, thus, if we remove them, where do we draw the line?

I mean, it's not really off-topic, as to answer the OP, we have to address the pay to win aspects of every store perk.

Removing just one item from the store, wouldn't jeopardise the success / ability of Auscraft to continue running, however, as I said: where do we draw the line? If we remove MCMMO tokens because they're too pay to win, the same could be said about MANY other store perks? I think there's actually probably worse examples than MCMMO tokens.
 
Very true the rest of the perks come under screwtanity now. I feel the the rebalancing of MCMMO xp gain can fall under the title "Balancing buy tokens" Where the xp gain is good enough to level to 1000 with some effort put in and tokens can be seen as a short cut. Not a necessity. Which for getting to Acrobatics 1000 I would see them as a must.

If in the end I am wrong about Auscraft having a lower xp rate for MCMMO and tweaked Acrobatics config differing from what is seen on https://mcmmo.org/wiki/Acrobatics. Then I better buckle because MCMMO has become Minecraft Runescape


About the mcmmo wiki about Acrobatics it states the no xp gain on same spot drop is for "to prevent users from using AFK acrobatic farms that allow them to farm XP while AFK. " By that I assume on servers where afk'ing isn't allowed it should be in my eyes disabled. I am fine with waiting 3 seconds before I can gain xp again according to there behavior
 

CAMM_

Owner
Owner
Hey 112,
I need to be brief here as I have a lot to do, but thanks for reaching out!.

I have recently noticed that farms shown in videos like this (without the pistons pushing you) are unable to be used anymore. This seems to a change in mcmmo (not sure if it can be turned of could be under ExploitFix -> acrbobatics) And also killing spawned mobs from natural spanners doesn't grant xp gain for skills such as Axes, Unarmed and Swords.
This has been in the game quite some time (since or before the 1.13.2 restart iirc), and I'm for all his updates for patching "Exploits". Jumping off the same blocks / making grinders for specific skills isn't how the plugin is intended to work. People here and there do complain about the fact that these "exploits" don't work, but seems most players have and continue to adjust to this change (as it's been several years since it was implemented).

I feel like this is giving players who buy tokens on the shop an major unfair advantage to players who don't and reaching the levels of players who have invested IRL money into MCMMO is a massive task...
....Now this could all me just complaining but I don't see how I am meant to be competitive against players who have more disposable income then others
I will be adding more ways to obtain mcMMO tokens in-game. Currently you can get them through ranking up and through the Vote Crate. There will be another ~2/3 ways to get them without having to purchase them.

We have a to-do list internally with a review of some mcMMO values listed, so there might be an adjustment in the near future (keep your eye on the Discord #change-log), but for the time being I won't be adjusting the mcMMO Tokens on the store.

I don't see players purchasing tokens as an unfair advantage. mcMMO Tokens have been on the store for a long time, and this is the first official "complaint" i've seen about it. Players in-game are still able to reach all of the mcMMO ranks (and the perks they provide) without having to buy the mcMMO Tokens; there would be an unfair advantage if players were not able to rank up to the same level/ranks without purchasing them.