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Different Klaus sell cap idea

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InfernoDigital

Stormy185
Stormy185
MEMBER
So I've heard a lot of frustration over the new sell caps for Klaus. I remember that in the last map Klaus was the main way I made any money on the server before I got enough to really set up shops for people to use. Even after setting up my shops, my preffered way to make small sums of money for purchases at player shops was through grinding at /warp sand or random dirt excavations, which it now seems has been halted in a major way, not just slowing the staling of the server's economy but slowing it's growth as well! Plus not everyone enjoys making shops, some people enjoy the more grindy stuff, so here's my idea for a different way to utilizes the Klaus NPC:

Rather than having him have a sell/buy cap that's arbitrary (you can only buy/sell so much, which is never good for builds/grind players) instead make it that Klaus is supplied directly by the players! AKA he will only have items in the shop (of the types he usually buys and sells) if he's been given those blocks by players, after his usual daily shipments run out.

So lets say someone needs 1000 granite blocks for a build. that player could check with Klaus and see that Klaus currently has 3000 blocks available, and the player can buy the 1000 they need. But how did Klaus get that 3000 granite?

Because Klaus gets a small amount (say 500 {although this number is obviously arbitrary depending on the amount of players on the server}) every day from shipments... but a player sold him 2500 granite, making money in the process, and upping Klaus's supply!

This way, not only would Klaus be able to have more of a catalogue available at all times (helpful for survival builders) but would also just help the economy grow without becoming stale (it would reward those willing to work and grind, but also would be a great help to those wishing to create large builds for shops and events on the server, who have money to spare on common blocks they need for those builds)

This would be a great way to not only normalize pricing for certain blocks across the server, as the blocks Klaus sells and buys would have a set price that every other player shop on the server would align with, but it would also help the block economy and get people trading common blocks again in a way that utilizes the NPC's at /market.

Let me know what you guys think of this idea, I'm curious what you guys think of the current NPC status and how it could be better utilized :D
 

Premalon

Premalon
Premalon
SUPPORTER
The main problem I find is money is basically useless this map. Since there is no ranking, nothing in spawn shops worth buying & nothing in player shops. Money doesn't leave the game anymore, it just changes hands.

- Make a crate with exclusive cosmetics where keys/tokens are buyable with in game currency (similar to halloween crate)
- Bring back ranks.
- Make more available at spawn market

Changing the market is a step in the right direction but will solve nothing at the end of the day until there is a reason for players to use that money.

Was hoping that there would be some meaningful changes/revisions over the past few weeks but it seems like it's full steam ahead with heavily restricted play.
 

CAMM_

Owner
CAMM_
CAMM_
MEMBER
So lets say someone needs 1000 granite blocks for a build. that player could check with Klaus and see that Klaus currently has 3000 blocks available, and the player can buy the 1000 they need. But how did Klaus get that 3000 granite?

Because Klaus gets a small amount (say 500 {although this number is obviously arbitrary depending on the amount of players on the server}) every day from shipments... but a player sold him 2500 granite, making money in the process, and upping Klaus's supply!

This way, not only would Klaus be able to have more of a catalogue available at all times (helpful for survival builders) but would also just help the economy grow without becoming stale (it would reward those willing to work and grind, but also would be a great help to those wishing to create large builds for shops and events on the server, who have money to spare on common blocks they need for those builds)
Cheers for the suggestion, but I'm not confident this would be a change in the right direction. There currently isn't any limit on buying items from the Merchants. The only limit is selling items to the merchant to make money.

Your proposed changes would just be reverting to the old system where there isn't any limit on selling blocks to the Merchants, no? These new changes definitely slow growth down, yes, but not to a difficult limit. Items you can sell to the Merchants were increased and the time the Merchants restock was reduced (from 3 to 2 days).

We do have some plans that will allow players to be able to reset their sell limits and/or have the Merchants restock their items earlier than the 2 days, but these are still under development.


Was hoping that there would be some meaningful changes/revisions over the past few weeks but it seems like it's full steam ahead with heavily restricted play.
The map has been around for less than one month. Development, testing, and implementation takes time. :big_smile:
 

InfernoDigital

Stormy185
Stormy185
MEMBER
Cheers for the suggestion, but I'm not confident this would be a change in the right direction. There currently isn't any limit on buying items from the Merchants. The only limit is selling items to the merchant to make money.

Your proposed changes would just be reverting to the old system where there isn't any limit on selling blocks to the Merchants, no? These new changes definitely slow growth down, yes, but not to a difficult limit. Items you can sell to the Merchants were increased and the time the Merchants restock was reduced (from 3 to 2 days).

We do have some plans that will allow players to be able to reset their sell limits and/or have the Merchants restock their items earlier than the 2 days, but these are still under development.



The map has been around for less than one month. Development, testing, and implementation takes time. :big_smile:
thanks for the reply Camm :D

Yeah, I understand making these changes takes a lot of effort and time, just posting my opinion and thoughts, since as of right now my play style from the last map just doesn't work anymore, and that made me a little sad as I loved the grindy bits of the last map. /warp sand was one of my favorite places on the entire map, especially once my tools were well enchanted, and it's sad to see that kind of economy be nonexistent anymore.

Keep up the good work, and keep fine tuning the systems! You'll get it right eventually :D
 

InfernoDigital

Stormy185
Stormy185
MEMBER
The main problem I find is money is basically useless this map. Since there is no ranking, nothing in spawn shops worth buying & nothing in player shops. Money doesn't leave the game anymore, it just changes hands.

- Make a crate with exclusive cosmetics where keys/tokens are buyable with in game currency (similar to halloween crate)
- Bring back ranks.
- Make more available at spawn market

Changing the market is a step in the right direction but will solve nothing at the end of the day until there is a reason for players to use that money.

Was hoping that there would be some meaningful changes/revisions over the past few weeks but it seems like it's full steam ahead with heavily restricted play.
I definitely agree the grindable player ranks should come back, for sure. the MCMMO stuff mixed with the grindable player ranks are a big part of what kept me coming back to the server day after day, and the ability to take supplies acquired during those MCMMO/rank grinds and sell them to make a bit of money to use at players shops was just so fun.
 

CAMM_

Owner
CAMM_
CAMM_
MEMBER
/warp sand was one of my favorite places on the entire map, especially once my tools were well enchanted, and it's sad to see that kind of economy be nonexistent anymore.
That is still in the game, though? Yes, you can't do it 24/7, but, now you have two days to gather all of the materials (in every shop if you wish) to sell to the Merchants before they restock.

This is something that we won't be reverting to the previous market system as majority are happy with it (based off conversations I've had in-game), and it allows us to sell more farmable items.

What will continue to be adjusted is the prices of items you can sell, sell caps/limits, items you can both buy and sell, and as I mentioned in my previous post we will be introducing other ways for players to reset their sell caps/restock the items earlier.
 

Astigmatic

Astigmatic
Astigmatic
SUPPORTER
- Bring back ranks.
I want that sweet sweet /sell


Alright, but all things considered, I agree with premalon.

Since there's no ranks, only a tiny amount of money leaves the economy

Since only a tiny bit disappears, a sell cap has to be added

Since there's a sellcap, wealth ends up getting funnelled to the top

Since the top players have a massive margin (Premalon is still #1 by around 170k, still richer than #2 and #3 put together), people lose heart and stop grinding for money.

Since there's no rank system, money becomes useless and nce you get netherite, elytra, only around ~10k is required for random odd purchases.
 
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Premalon

Premalon
Premalon
SUPPORTER
I want that sweet sweet /sell


Alright, but all things considered, I agree with premalon.

Since there's no ranks, only a tiny amount of money leaves the economy

Since only a tiny bit disappears, a sell cap has to be added

Since there's a sellcap, wealth ends up getting funnelled to the top

Since the top players have a massive margin (Premalon is still #1 by around 170k, still richer than #2 and #3 put together), people lose heart and stop grinding for money.

Since there's no rank system, money becomes useless and nce you get netherite, elytra, only around ~10k is required for random odd purchases.
I enjoyed the Hero V grind last map and the perks that came with reaching it. I think the main constraint for players was the play time requirement & money requirement. I'm not too sure how ranks would work now in conjunction with weekly quests as the task system has just been renamed from ranking to questing.

I also think the capped gameplay needs revision. If you complete your quests too fast, you have no content until the next week. Suggestion: release content in bulk or additional content and let players work at their own pace rather than drip feeding the battle pass week over week.

As I said before, the only source of money leaving the game is through players making purchases from the spawn markets which I would say never happens. If players are just purchasing from each other, it just moves the money from player to player with no use for it outside of this.

How I see it currently: People will build, people will max their gear out, people will do weekly battle pass & wait till next week, build some more, complete builds, burn out, quit and come back at 1.18.

I'm not saying this out of spite, rather love for how the server has progressed until 1.17.1. I know you cant please everyone, but you can find the best of both worlds for the casual players and the grindy players.

Also, chip should have all my money/items :smile:
 
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InfernoDigital

Stormy185
Stormy185
MEMBER
I enjoyed the Hero V grind last map and the perks that came with reaching it. I think the main constraint for players was the play time requirement & money requirement. I'm not too sure how ranks would work now in conjunction with weekly quests as the task system has just been renamed from ranking to questing.

I also think the capped gameplay needs revision. If you complete your quests too fast, you have no content until the next week. Suggestion: release content in bulk or additional content and let players work at their own pace rather than drip feeding the battle pass week over week.

As I said before, the only source of money leaving the game is through players making purchases from the spawn markets which I would say never happens. If players are just purchasing from each other, it just moves the money from player to player with no use for it outside of this.

How I see it currently: People will build, people will max their gear out, people will do weekly battle pass & wait till next week, build some more, complete builds, burn out, quit and come back at 1.18.

I'm not saying this out of spite, rather love for how the server has progressed until 1.17.1. I know you cant please everyone, but you can find the best of both worlds for the casual players and the grindy players.

Also, chip should have all my money/items :smile:
I agree with basically all of that, Prem, yes :D
 

matbro999

matbro999
matbro999
MEMBER
I enjoyed the Hero V grind last map and the perks that came with reaching it. I think the main constraint for players was the play time requirement & money requirement. I'm not too sure how ranks would work now in conjunction with weekly quests as the task system has just been renamed from ranking to questing.

I also think the capped gameplay needs revision. If you complete your quests too fast, you have no content until the next week. Suggestion: release content in bulk or additional content and let players work at their own pace rather than drip feeding the battle pass week over week.

As I said before, the only source of money leaving the game is through players making purchases from the spawn markets which I would say never happens. If players are just purchasing from each other, it just moves the money from player to player with no use for it outside of this.

How I see it currently: People will build, people will max their gear out, people will do weekly battle pass & wait till next week, build some more, complete builds, burn out, quit and come back at 1.18.

I'm not saying this out of spite, rather love for how the server has progressed until 1.17.1. I know you cant please everyone, but you can find the best of both worlds for the casual players and the grindy players.

Also, chip should have all my money/items :smile:
I think the grind is juuuussst right :smile:
 

Premalon

Premalon
Premalon
SUPPORTER
I think the grind is juuuussst right :smile:
Thats great you feel that way and would love for you to elaborate why you think that a bit more. (Look at it from a new players perspective not an Immortal perspective)

I'll get the ball rolling with my points:

- There is no grind. If you're talking about *grind* for supporter, you can do that in a few days if you use a single vote close to a vote party

- No one is forced to participate in the ranking process. I dont believe that the main issue last map was progression to final rank rather the fact that some of the mundane tasks to get there (as mentioned before). People complained a lot last map about the lack of salmon available to progress.

- I don't know how ranks would even return as the task format has just been revamped into weekly quests.

- Not everyone can buy a paid rank or wants to buy one every month. People should have the option to support the server with their wallet (you) or with their time (me). Only reason I got sorc was to set more warps and I couldn't even make it through the whole month.

Even with playing the server casually or as stiggy said "sweaty", people from both sides have some sort of engagement and a sense of accomplishment whether they rank up once or ten times.

Having parts of Aus in lockdown will help with numbers for now but as I said before, once people run out of things to do whether it be gearing, building, people will look for other content to do but having it timegated or just not there to begin with will make players feel "disheartened" more than ranking ever would. Seeing the peak player count at reset around 70 and drop down over half should be a clear indicator that there is things missing to retain those players.

If a player doesn't use discord or doesn't want to vote for the server, what ranks are available to them?

There needs to be more discussion on adding more engaging content rather than the Activision approach and adding cosmetics every other week.

As I said, i'm not saying all this to be negative and don't think this platform has enough users to get a good discussion going seeing as most people use discord.

Theres a lot more I could say but I think we've already gone too far off the original topic :smile:
 

CAMM_

Owner
CAMM_
CAMM_
MEMBER
- There is no grind. If you're talking about *grind* for supporter, you can do that in a few days if you use a single vote close to a vote party

- No one is forced to participate in the ranking process. I dont believe that the main issue last map was progression to final rank rather the fact that some of the mundane tasks to get there (as mentioned before). People complained a lot last map about the lack of salmon available to progress.
We don't want the server to be a constant grind. We judged this from statistics from the last 4 maps - majority of people that played do not enjoy a grind as they never made it past the first two ranks. We took this data into account for this reset.

- Not everyone can buy a paid rank or wants to buy one every month. People should have the option to support the server with their wallet (you) or with their time (me). Only reason I got sorc was to set more warps and I couldn't even make it through the whole month.
Agreed, and that's why we offer Supporter. You can support the server without buying anything.

If a player doesn't use discord or doesn't want to vote for the server, what ranks are available to them?
The "PLAYER" rank is available to them. To get to MEMBER they either link their Discord or Forum account, it's not a difficult thing to do to unlock the perks that MEMBER receive, even if they don't use Discord it doesn't take long to create a forum account by using /register in-game.
I also don't really understand why someone actively playing on a server wouldn't vote for the server? I mean, that's fine, but it also means you won't rank towards Supporter.

There needs to be more discussion on adding more engaging content rather than the Activision approach and adding cosmetics every other week.

As I said, i'm not saying all this to be negative and don't think this platform has enough users to get a good discussion going seeing as most people use discord.

Theres a lot more I could say but I think we've already gone too far off the original topic :smile:
You keep making comments like this, such referring to us as Blizzard, or "heavily restricted play" (whatever that's supposed to mean), or assuming that this is "it" in regards to content, where you really couldn't be more incorrect.

We aren't going to release all of the content on the first day of the map? Not only is that very difficult to prepare for, but we want to release certain content based off what we see players doing and enjoying, instead of just assuming that everyone will want to do x for the whole map (hello old ranking system) which becomes stale quickly.

There has been a lot of discussion internally with Staff & Developers, and of course we have more content planned. This will be Cosmetics, this will be different tasks players can do (yes - even for the grindy players), this will be more things to spend in-game money on, this will be seasonal events, and so forth. Will it all be suited to you? Definitely not.

We will continue to try to shape Survival to be as enjoyable for as many people as possible - and so far most feedback in-game about this has been great when I've asked. In any situation it's always the people dissatisfied with something that will leave feedback/poor reviews and want to start discussion on it.

Finally, I will mention that what I think you fundamentally misunderstand is that this is something that I do in my own time - this isn't my job. It hasn't even been a month since the reset and you've made many (incorrect) remarks and assumptions on different things. So to reiterate for the last time, these changes take time. If you can't appreciate that and don't like that, that's completely fine.

I'm closing this thread as it's gone way off topic. But cheers for those who provided helpful feedback. :big_smile:
 
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